Lately the Church hasn’t been to pleased with the State. In particular, Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J. Kennedy, Rhode Island Democrat, to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion because of his advocacy of abortion rights. There is more to the story though.
This comes on the heals of an October argument between the two about the opposition of the nation’s bishops to any health-care overhaul that did not include a strict ban on federal subsidies for abortion. Kennedy questioned the “pro-life” credentials of the bishops by saying that health care for millions of uninsured was at stake. Bishop Tobin didn’t take kindly to these words and noted that the bishops are staunch and longtime supporters of reforming the health-care system. However the bishops will not support a health-care bill that fails to include a ban on taxpayer funded abortion, like the Stupak Amendment. Here is a video of Bishop Tobin standing up for his actions on the O Reilly Factor:
The US conference for Catholic Bishops played a major role in the final bill voted on in the House recently. Perhaps this has emboldened the church to play a bigger role in influencing politics. The Catholic Archdiocese of Washington got the memo, they aren’t going to put up with a new law being voted on in D.C., so they stood up to the D.C. Council over the issue of same sex marriage.
Fearful that they could be forced, among other things, to extend employee benefits to same-sex married couples, church officials said they would have no choice but to abandon their contracts with the city.
“If the city requires this, we can’t do it,” said Susan Gibbs, spokeswoman for the archdiocese,“The city is saying in order to provide social services, you need to be secular. For us, that’s really a problem”
The Church is part of a few nonprofit organizations that partner with the district to serve its 68,000 people. Most importantly they manage the city owned shelters that accommodate the homeless. While some of the city council claim the church isn’t an integral component, the church says it donates up to 10 million annually from its own coffers.
Shockingly to me, council member David A. Catania, said he would rather end the city’s relationship with the church than give in to its demands. “They don’t represent, in my mind, an indispensable component of our social services infrastructure.”
A couple of things here, first the church is going to give up all kinds of city contracts over a couple of gay rights issues? Sounds okay to me; the church is standing up for its doctrine. Second, some of the stories I have read seem to imply that the church is just going to get up and walk away from the needy and their cause. That is not the case; they just won’t participate in some public funded social services. Third, something is wrong with our country when city councilmen think that these social programs should be run and managed by the city and not the church.
I understand the sometimes touchy relations the government has with the church. The First Amendment is used in all kinds of ways today to limit religion in our country. It shouldn’t however affect the church’s ability to influence the constituents of government officials. That is why I think it is important for the Church to stand up for what it believes in and let the people know where they stand. Some Christian Activists are doing this with The Manhattan Declaration. This document and website is asking for support through signatures and also calls for Christians to seek justice and common good for all people.
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Timmy K
I am Catholic and I appreciate the principles I was raised to believe in. But I get a little uneasy when it comes to the judging or codemning others business. I think the Church has every right to promote and follow its doctrine, but I dont think they should tell someone like Kennedy that he is a sinner that doesnt deserve communion. Leave the judging up to the big guy upstairs.
However, I think the minority has too strong of a hold on how government reacts to all things religion. Rasmussen or Gallup has so many holiday polls about people preferring “Merry Christmas” to “Happy Holidays” or religious symbolism this time of year. The defense of religion needs to be strong just to counter that minority insurgency.
Good post Timmy. I thought that the actual “forbidding” was more of a something said in a letter from a few years ago in which he was asked to refrain from taking communion?
I agree that this is a touchy subject, and my gut tells me that the church should stay out of matters as such, but i love it when truly victimized groups speak out and take a stand. Many people on the left disagree with that assumption(bias against christians), but i assure you its valid. I love the argument about separation of church and state being a reason why Christianity is of no more prevalence in our country than Judaism or Hinduism. Its garbage. Thats like saying Spanish holds the same weight as English in America since we dont have a recognized national language…
Have you guys noticed a softening of anti Christmas bobbleheads this season? Much like conservatives in general, i believe many so-called “right “wingers” are fed up with the shoddy treatment they’ve received, specifically in questioning their own recognizing of our national holiday or Judeo Christian roots..
Its amazing that we have to fight everyday to convince people that the avg christian is not inherently bad or evil or twisted, and that those without a faith have every right to believe in whatever they choose to, as do those with faith. They often dont understand that those w/o a specific faith simply fill that void with something they deem parallel, be it global warming, the environment, spirituality, or even themselves..
No, the Bishop was fed up him and banned him from receiving communion.
I didn’t really get into…. this is about how the Catholic church treats its followers. So when he was banned from communion the church (not unprecedented by the way) was essentially saying you are either a practicing catholic or your not. You have to remember the Catholic denomination isn’t as forgiving lenient to its members as most Christians. There are rules and you must stick by them.
The other stuff is more important to society though. The church has to promote and fight against the secularist or we will continue down the anti religion road.
Hello! You left a comment on my blog, I’m returning the comment. 🙂
The way I see it, the church is actually right here. The key point here is that Communion is not a government/public domain. This is purely religious domain. If Catholics want to punish their people for not obeying their rules, that’s their business and we have no business interfering.
Imagine if someone confessed to being a pagan, would they get communion? Does it matter to government if they do? Leave that stuff to the church and keep government out of it.
That all said, I also think the church should refuse communion to anyone who doesn’t vote to bring all the troops home, stop building guns and vastly increase money for the poor. The problem isn’t that the Catholic church is refusing communion for abortion-rights people, it’s that they’re only refusing communion for one sort of sin on our leaders.
And THAT is where they’re trying to influence politics, that’s wrong, and the Church should focus purely on their own matters.
BookGuy,
Thanks for the comment! But one question. HUH?
I thought this was a case of the Bishop asking Kennedy not to take communion a few years ago, and it wasnt until Kennedy made it public that it was an issue. Could be wrong.
Likening sinful activity to not giving money to the poor or not voting to stop building guns is so ridiculous it hardly warrants comment.
I dont like what either did in this case, the Bishop or Kennedy i suppose, but somehow comparing staunch abortion support to someone who supports fighting against evil along with compassionate self reliance is absurd. You should not only love God, you should also hate evil. Our military has done more to stand up to evil than anyone else in history.
Look forward to checking out your site.
Nobody should be expected to “love God.” Freedom of religion, one of the reasons our forefathers and mothers fled the old country was for this very reason. I don’t have to bow and pray and believe in all that miserable hocus pocus. Religious leaders who have not been elected to any political position should keep their fingers out of politics. It offends me that Pope Benedict, who as Head of the Doctrine for the Faith, help cover up child abuse cases across Europe and even invited Cardinal Law over to Rome. This inveterate child molester was given a cozy shoulder to cry on when he got to Rome. It shocks me that these money-grubbing molesters have so much influence in a democracy. Corporate and private interest groups already bounce Congress around like a soccer ball. Now the Church is wriggling its slimy, child-abusing fingers around the balls of America? Situation GRIM!
Well, I suppose my point is that they are Christians, as in followers of Jesus Christ. If they say that because would appose Abortion, we will not give you communion, then you must follow that chain of logic out.
Would Jesus vote to invade Iraq? Would he vote to build guns? Would he vote for the Death Penalty? He probably would vote against gay marriage. But if the Catholic church wants to punish someone for not voting as Jesus would, then they need to follow that out. Otherwise it’s just politics.
I understand what your saying. What your missing is the difference between Catholics and Christians. If you watched the video Bill asks the Bishop this question. The Bishop is acting accordingly to church doctrine where abortion is intrinsically wrong… war, guns, death penalty are acceptable to the Catholic church in situations.
It’s in the churches right to withhold communion. And it’s within his right to find another church.
What’s not cool about any of this is that it looks like the Catholic Church is withholding favor to coerce a government official into making a decision based on their agenda. That’s unacceptable for a religious organization. If they want to pull that sort of crap, then they can give a campaign donation and let their money do the talking. Playing politics with someone’s religion is just begging for trouble. The Catholics have been getting away with this type of behavior throughout history.
Thanks for the comment.
So is it within the churches right or is it unacceptable?
Its only unacceptable when it involves a public official?
Catholics getting away with this throughout history…. What is wrong with any organization influencing politicians? ACLU does it… PETA does it… why can’t the church? The Catholic church certainly has made mistake in its history but none of them have to do with the church’s faith.
Yes, I agree that they can and they do get away with it, and it is their right, and it’s still unacceptable to me.
The ACLU and PETA don’t deny a “believer” a sacrament if they don’t do as their supposed to. They don’t engage in spiritual blackmail because they can’t. Religious organizations (good ones) should NOT treat their followers like cattle and give them the stick when they don’t toe the line.
To be clear, I find it ethically repugnant that the church does this. It is unacceptable to me, and if I were Catholic and this were done to me, I would simply leave the church. For some, however, that isn’t an option. Some people owe allegiance to a specific organization.
So it’s not that the church can’t do this. They can (and do). Moreover, they should legally be able to do so. But I will never find it acceptable for any religious institution to interfere with decisions of state in a way that amounts to spiritual blackmail.
“They don’t engage in spiritual blackmail because they can’t”
Instead the ACLU and PETA just use slander and moral blackmail if you don’t toe the line. Look at the Global Warming stuff… if a individual or organization doesn’t submit to the idea they are blackballed and wont recieve funding. This happens in every realm with every special interest, don’t excuse them and blame the church.
“Some people owe allegiance to a specific organization”
Yea, he uses his catholicism to get elected, his allegiance is only self serving.
“ethically repugnant”
Isn’t it ethically repugnant for a church to allow its followers to be hypocrits? What then is the meaning of the Church? The reason the Catholic church and other religions, such as Islam, have been so strong throughout history is their strict adherence to their faith. There is no excuse for turning your back on the doctrine and still claiming to be a follower, even if your a politician.
“if a individual or organization doesn’t submit to the idea they are blackballed and wont recieve funding. This happens in every realm with every special interest, don’t excuse them and blame the church.”
I don’t. This is wrong too. It’s not spiritual blackmail though. Which is worse?
“Yea, he uses his catholicism to get elected, his allegiance is only self serving. ”
If it’s only self-serving, then he’s just as disgusting. Now they’re both unacceptable.
“There is no excuse for turning your back on the doctrine and still claiming to be a follower, even if your a politician.”
You don’t have to agree with all the doctrine do you?
Maybe if you’re a Catholic you do have to drink all the Kool Aid or you don’t get any. I’m not sure. All I know is that when churches and religions leaders starts telling people who to vote for and what to vote for rather than just expressing their views on the issues, I get a visceral reaction that tells me that it’s wrong. I’m going with my gut on this one, and will continue to do so. Religion should stay out of politics, or politics will start messing around with religion. I don’t want these two getting mixed up any more than they already are. It’s bad enough already.
Thanks Writerdodd for the civilized debate that is often hard to find in these issues.
“If it’s only self-serving, then he’s just as disgusting. Now they’re both unacceptable”
I can agree to disagree with that. The reason being is that if its self serving then I don’t think its blackmail.
“Maybe if you’re a Catholic you do have to drink all the Kool Aid or you don’t get any”
Right, that is way it is for Catholics simply put.
I agree with you and and your gut about the church and politics staying away from each other. The problem though is that a minority of people (in some cases) through politics has attacked religion. ie… removal of God and ten commandments from public places, removal of prayer in school, attacks on christmas